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Thread: 1977 Loadstar/404ci carb help

  1. #1
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    May 2009
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    Default 1977 Loadstar/404ci carb help

    We have a 1977 Loadstar grain truck with a 404ci engine it and we're having troubles with the carburetor. We're either looking to rebuild it or replace it, but noone seems to carry any 404 parts anymore, now from what I've researched, the 404 was nothing more than a stroked version of the 345, can anyone verify this for me? Then, if it is, are the intakes/carbs the same between the 2 of them? I know I can get a reman 2bbl Holley like what's on it now for $280 and that would be a great route for us to go, just need to get it verified that the baseplate is the same from the 345 to the 404.

    Anyone know?

  2. #2
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    The two barrel carbs are all the same from that era. Holley, motocraft, autolite, all interchangeable. When you say "Holley two barrel" that's what you get, a standard, universal base plate.

    4 barrels came in two styles, spreadbore and square bore. The spread bore carb had small primaries and larger secondaries. The square bore had 4 holes the same size. A square bore is a square bore, etc.

    There were exceptions, but when it comes to IH, same base plate size on all 2 barrels.

    There is a LIST number on your carb, cast or stamped into the body. That number'd carb is a direct swap. From the Holley site, you should be able to get the specs if nobody has a direct replacement.

    The two barrel carbs came in different cfm ratings. If you can find one with the same list number on it, just bolt it on and it will work. You may have to change the jet size for your altitude, but that's an easy thing to do, and unlikely on a grain truck. You may also need to adjust the linkage for a bigger or smaller squirt of gas on the accellerator pump, but again, probably not.

    The ball park cfm rating for your engine is 350-500. Smaller is better for fuel economy. Summit racing sells a 350 cfm holley 2 barrel. Most of the ones you buy at the parts stores will be 500 cfm. They will work just fine, but you will be more likely to have to tweek the carb to get fuel economy. Expect about 4-5 mpg loaded, 6 mpg empty without tuning.

    You might also look at the governor, if any. It is possible that your truck has a governed distributor, and that means when you flow a specific cfm, the timing gets retarded so that you can't over-rev. Look and see if there is a little extra plumbing on the vac advance. Later years may have had electronic governors, but I have never worked on any gas loadstars past about 73.
    Allan E.
    Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
    Charter Member, Old Hippie IH Club
    Old fashioned binder freak

  3. #3
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    Awesome, thanks very much. Upon further investigation, I found a Model number 2210 for that truck that was used through that era on both the 345 and the 404, which is the carb I can get. So, hopefully the old girl still has some life in her. I will definetly check out that governing system too, that's a first on me, but I'm not real well versed with the engines, don't have to be...it never breaks down!!! The truck has been well taken care of and is still used on the farm. That 404 was the first engine I ever rebuilt at the age of 8 with the guidance from my dad who is now passed on, so I'd really like to keep it going though it doesn't get used too much anymore...still can't beat an old IH.

  4. #4
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    Ok, the latest news is that the carb is fine, but the vacuum advance is bad on the dizzy. New question is, will a 345 dizzy work on the 404? I can't get the advance by itself, but I can get a complete dizzy for a 345 for $89. Are they the same points style ignitions?

  5. #5
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    Not the same dizzy. However, you can probably match the vac advance up with a similar unit. There are not that many different vacuum advances, just the same ones with different plungers. I have found that IH was not a company that would make a part they could buy cheaper, and a distributor body falls into that category. The vac advance would have other applications, and sometimes the difference is just where the tiny holes are drilled in the plunger.

    It is also possible that there are still distributors in the system at IH. Might be in Chigago or something, but a Navistar dealer would show it. Otherwise, a junk yard is your best bet. The 404 is an MV series engine, and all the distributors are probably the same.

    Another thing to think about:

    The vacuum advance is there to retard the timing under load to prevent "ping." You can run the engine without the vacuum advance.

    Also, the 2210 carb was used on scouts for several years. They are a good carb when working properly. The 2245 is a similar carb that will bolt on in its place, as is the 2300.
    Last edited by Allan E.; 09-01-2009 at 03:38 AM.
    Allan E.
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    Charter Member, Old Hippie IH Club
    Old fashioned binder freak

  6. #6
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    Ok. Well, I was out there working on the truck earlier today and forgot to mention that the carb was changed last year to a 1930 model Holley, that seems to be working perfectly. The whole issue with the truck now(there were a few) is that #5 cylinder is dead. I'm going to get a new set of wires and plugs to throw on it tomorrow to see if that solves the problem. The cylinder has great compression, no valve issues or ring issues. Then at intermittent times, it'll cut another cylinder out, making a total of 2 dead cylinders. I also did some further digging and found out it is an electronic distributor with a hall effect switch under the cap, no points. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what else it could be causing 2 cylinders to die(one intermittently) if the plugs and wires don't solve it. Anyone have any ideas there? We've replaced several ignition module(brain boxes) in the past and they always just go dead, not cause problems like this...could that be it?

  7. #7
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    could it be a bad govenor on the motor? just guessing.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by john breeze View Post
    could it be a bad govenor on the motor? just guessing.
    There's no governor on the dizzy, I checked for that, forgot to mention that, but no governor. If it's not just a set of bad wires or plugs...I haven't the slightest idea. The only other thing that I can think is that possibly one or 2 of the vanes on the driveshaft in the dizzy that pulse the hall effect switch are worn more than the others and the hall effect switch isn't picking them up all the time, but that's a long shot.

  9. #9
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    Default intermittent dead cyl

    Quote Originally Posted by bhunt31 View Post
    There's no governor on the dizzy, I checked for that, forgot to mention that, but no governor. If it's not just a set of bad wires or plugs...I haven't the slightest idea. The only other thing that I can think is that possibly one or 2 of the vanes on the driveshaft in the dizzy that pulse the hall effect switch are worn more than the others and the hall effect switch isn't picking them up all the time, but that's a long shot.

    I have also seen where the wrong cap or a cracked cap or a misaligned cap can create a loss of continuity and cause a miss. It has happened to me in all three instances. The cap might move around just a little, making the gap too great for a short time. Also as you state one bad wire can cause a problem when it is hot or cold and the problem disappears after heat up/cool down.

  10. #10
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    I had an arc between 5 and 6 on my fire truck and lost both wires at both ends and the cap and rotor at the same time. My guess is that the cap and/or rotor failed first, and the arc fried the terminals, which fried the wires.

    Once I replaced the cap, I found the two dead wires, but I was very suprized to find that they were also burned at the plug end. I went ahead and changed the plugs while I was at it.

    Strange things can happen. It sounds like your module is okay. I suggest you change cap, rotor, wires, and plugs, and make sure you use the proper dielectric grease.
    Allan E.
    Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
    Charter Member, Old Hippie IH Club
    Old fashioned binder freak

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