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Thread: scout/ dumb newbie questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    upstate, NY
    Posts
    43

    Default scout/ dumb newbie questions

    I finally got the motor swapped out in my '63 Scout 80. The original 4cyl was siezed, so i swapped it with a 4cylinder out of a Scout 800. Im assuming that the original engine in the 80 was the 152. The one i bought is not the same though. I say this because the carb from my 152 will not go on the new motor, the carb studs are spread furthur apart on the new motor. Is it safe to assume that the new motor is the 196? Dont know where the #s are.

    Also, the starter on this thing cranks very SSSLLLOOOOOOWWWWW. Is that normal? Original '63 starter.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Hurlburt Field, FL
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Does your battery have enough cranking amps and juice to turn the starter? The starters are the same from v-8's, and those things are power hungry.

    And yes, it should be pretty safe to assume that. Most 800's came with the 196.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Interior Alaska
    Posts
    227

    Default

    The number for the engine is on the left hand side below the intake manifold. Another quick way to tell is to look at your oil dip stick. If it is bolted in the top hole, then it's a 196, otherwise it's a 152. Not all carbs are interchangeable, I have a 232 & a 258, which will change over if I try to use my Weber, but won't change over with the stock Carter or Holley.

    Does the motor spin freely with a breaker bar? If not, then you have a motor binding issue. If it does spin freely with a breaker bar, then the slow starter could be a wiring, battery or starter issue. See that you are getting the right voltage to your starter before thinking the starter is shot to rule out the wiring / battery first. A stock starter will not turn as quickly as a new one, but they are fairly easy to pull and get tested from Napa or one of the other part houses.

    HTH

    Bill

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    upstate, NY
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Its a big battery(fully charged) with new cables. I've used it in a couple other projects lately, worked fine in them. The motor turns freely by hand, and i had it running for about 30seconds today. So its safe to say theres no binding issue.

    The scout has been in the family since new (1963) My father said its cranked slow like that forever. Maybe its just me, but it doesnt crank like my chevys.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Interior Alaska
    Posts
    227

    Default

    Older starters just don't have the speed of newer ones as the engines didn't require it. Things have changed over the years and the windings are different along with the internal magnets for the starters and newer engines seem to want more rpm to start than torque alone.

    You can always get a new stock starter, have yours rebuilt or upgrade to one of the mean green starters. I don't if anyone put a mean green on a 4 cylinder, but it should spin quite a bit faster.

  6. #6

    Default

    ---Often times it is heat that beats on them, causing the problem you describe... "Dragging Starter" is the term. However, you should check your cables, grounds (main ground at least), test and charge the battery.

    ---FWIW, my 304 SV8s starter was original and plenty of people are still using their original starters. They're same exact starter that is found on an L4. Same 12v starter that was used in most 12v applications and was built exactly the way the earlier model starters were built... and many newer starters where weight or torque isn't an issue. I'd keep the old starter and have it rebuilt by a local, reputable builder if it is faulty. NOT AutoZone, NOT NAPA, NOT PepBoys, etc, etc. They all use Cardone and they're most likely contracted to NAPCO in Kaleva, MI 90% of Manistee County's crack heads work.

    ---Problem we have these days is they are rebuilt without checking specs. mass-produced POS that worst yet, get bead blasted instead of hot-washed and there is only one shim for an IH, so removing material is a no-no... that shim is not used with the manual transmissions... where most companies it doesn't matter because you can buy shim packs all day long.

    ---When you install your rebuilt starter. Take a gander at this. This is a much better solution than the Ford solenoid-relay.
    Last edited by Thomas; 11-05-2009 at 06:56 AM.
    ---Thank you,
    -T.R.E.Jr. (Fortiter Et Recte & Soyez Sage)

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    upstate, NY
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Im going to take the starter off of my 266 tommorrow and give it a try. I dont know why i didnt think about that before. The starter that is on my 80 now hasnt done anything for over 20 years, AND the inspection cover is missing.

    If that still doesnt work, i know a really good auto electric guy. But hes not cheap. $150 to "freshin up" a generator this past summer.

    Does anyone out there have a inspection/dust cover for a scout with hydraulic clutch. I have one, but its for the manual clutch setup.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    upstate, NY
    Posts
    43

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    Well i installed the 266 starter and did the wiring upgrade(still dont know what exactly it does). Everything works perfect now. Now on to the next project.....

    Still looking for an inspection cover

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hillbilly4008 View Post
    Im going to take the starter off of my 266 tommorrow and give it a try.
    Without a cover my starter would always pack full of mud, so every 3rd or 4th run I had to pull the starter off, take it appart, wash the mud and silt out of it and put it back on. Of course I used the flywheel as a dirt grinder quite a bit on the trail. I got a cover and now I still have to clean the starter out but not nearly as often.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, California
    Posts
    283

    Default

    You mean.. the flywheel cover? Yeah mine is missing the cover on that as well.. (makes my starter sound SOOOOO loud its ridiculous) Not sure where to get one either lol especially since mine has a SBC350 swap... so the original prolly wont work? Any ideas...


    Cause im guessing it doesn't like have sand and dirt and what not in it lol

    Am I F'ed in the A? and gonna have to fab something up myself...?
    -72 Scout2 - SBC350 with RV camshaft, 4 speed manual Trans, D20 xfer case with CV drive shafts.
    -Dana 44 Detroit locker rear.
    -Dana 44 (out of a 75) Rebuilt /w trutrac limited slip frnt



    ~Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government.

    ~T.J.

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