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Thread: Dana 44 axles in my 65 scout ?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Catskill Mtns, NY
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    26

    Default Dana 44 axles in my 65 scout ?

    I just bought this Scout off ebay a couple weeks ago. The guy I bought it from said that the rear end went out on the previous owner and he had a friend replace it and the front end with Dana 44's from a 1070 800 scout. ( I dont really knoww what the 1070 means, Oct. 1970 maybe). Well this guy never did anything with it. So now I have it and when looking at it (with my very limited knowlege) I'm trying to figure out what stopped the project. The rear seems to be mostly finished. The shocks are in , the leafs are tightened and the driveshaft is bolted up (although it is a center mounted diff. and the shaft runs at a bit of an angle) I understand the orig. was passenger side offset so the shaft runs straight to the trans. The Front axle on the other hand has yet to have the nuts tightened on the leafs, the steering arms (which also are rubbing together) and the shocks were never installed. Looking at the front of the truck the drivers side leaf where it attaches in the front is off center. It seems the whole assembly is out of true toward the outside a little bit.
    The fact that nothing got tightened up and the front shocks arent on and the steering arms seem to touch, and the dr. side leafs are out of kilter make me wonder if something went wrong. None of the brake guts are on these axles either.
    I guess my question is whether the axles are compatable with my Scout 80 in the first place. ( assuming they ARE Dana 44's).
    Not much fluid in either Diff. either and the front one allows me to dunk my finger in far enough to discover it covered with sludge when i take it out.
    I'm gonna try to get this thing going, any advice you could offer with this info in mind would certainly be appreciated.
    Thanx
    1965 Scout 80

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    eastern washington state
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    427

    Default

    well first off he might ran out of money or the wife said no more. there are a number of reasons. scout 2 axles will fit but you have to move the spring perches.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Aiken, SC
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    Default

    The axle from an 800 should fit. Don't worry about the offset carrier. The 64 Scout 80 had an optional D44 with offset carrier, and then IH changed to the D20 t-case in 65, so the carrier was centered from that point forward. The angle difference just isn't enough to matter with a 4 cylinder engine, and it still stays equal and opposite, so it should not vibrate.
    The concern is to make sure the axles are lined up properly, not crooked.

    The front axle on a Scout 80 is a Dana 27. There was no Dana 44 option, but there was a D30 option on the 800 that should bolt up okay, and it also fine for a 4 cylinder. It's purely a weight issue. The D30 front was used in Scout 800s and Scout IIs through 73 and partly in 74, even under V8 equipped models.

    If something else is installed, chances are the spring perches were moved. There was no D44 option on the front of Scout 80 or 800 models. It's not hard to tell a 30 from a 44. The cover plates are different, and there is a number cast into the housing at about the 4 o'clock position as you look at the cover, like 44-1 or whatever that tells you what you have.

    Make sure the gears match. Mismatched gears mean breakage.
    Allan E.
    Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
    Charter Member, Old Hippie IH Club
    Old fashioned binder freak

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Catskill Mtns, NY
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    Default

    Thanx for the replies!
    The only numbers I find on the front axle are on the main shaft btwn the drivers side trunnion and the diff. and they read from left to rt. from the front of the scout: 5 4 0 B5 603142 2

    The front axle and rear appear to be out of the same Scout, as the seller stated . They both have the same amount of corrosion and the covers appear to have been blue at one point.
    I don't see any signs of fabrication to accomodate the switch.
    Are the "Perches" the rubber bumpers?
    The leaf holders appear to be in the original positions.
    Is there any way to tell the gear ratio of these axles?
    How do I know if they're the same to avoid the breakage?
    Thanx again...
    1965 Scout 80

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Aiken, SC
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    Default

    In my earlier post I described how to tell which axles.

    On a limited slip axle, you raise both wheels, turn one of them, and count the number of turns of the driveshaft to let the wheel go exactly 360 degrees. The stock ratios for a Scout 80 were 4.27 and 4.88, so slightly over 4 or just about 5 turns of the driveshaft will be your choices. A better reference would be slightly less than 4.5 or slightly more than 4.5. Any other ratios are non-stock.

    If the axle is open differential, the number of turns of the driveshaft is half the number described above. Open differentials can have the wheels spinning opposite directions, or one wheel stopped while the other wheel spins. In that case, you would get 2.1 or 2.4 turns of the shaft for the wheel turning.

    If both axles were changed, you need to check both, because the ratios might be different.
    If only one axle was changed, you need to check both, because one of the ratios may be different.

    Having said all that.... Drain the oil and remove the covers. The numbers are stamped into the gears. You need fresh gear oil in there anyway. Use GL5. It's the only place in the vehicle where GL5 is used.
    Allan E.
    Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
    Charter Member, Old Hippie IH Club
    Old fashioned binder freak

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Catskill Mtns, NY
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    Default Front end trouble

    I called the previous owner to the previous owner today to try and get a bit more history on the axles in my Scout. He told me that both axles came out of a 1971 Scout II. Knowing this and figuring they would probably be Dana 44 rear and Dana 30 in the front based on what I've read and heard, I set off to check out the gear ratios to make sure they were the same as Allen had suggested.
    The back axle is a 3.73 and I assume it to be a Dana 44

    The front axle did NOT turn the drive shaft when I raised the wheels and spun them
    The could only get the shift levers to go into 4 wheel low range.
    I have no working clutch right now (and NO brakes) so I couldn't start it up and jockey it into 4 wheel high. But I'm thinking that wouldn't have mattered anyway.
    I popped the diff. cover off to look around for the obvious. Only to drain out some cruddy looking gear oil. Pulled the wheel,hub and axle out off from the drivers side and nothing looks broken there. The spline on both ends look fine. The axle comes through to the knuckle joint inside the diff. and with the short turn I'm able to do by hand it moves the knuckle.
    All the gears look fine no wear marks or scores. They're shiney and clean looking.
    Anyone have any insight on this? Am I doing something wrong? Why won't the axles turn the drive shaft like the rear one will?
    Thanks!
    1965 Scout 80

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Interior Alaska
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    227

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Beers View Post
    The front axle did NOT turn the drive shaft when I raised the wheels and spun them
    The could only get the shift levers to go into 4 wheel low range.
    I have no working clutch right now (and NO brakes) so I couldn't start it up and jockey it into 4 wheel high. But I'm thinking that wouldn't have mattered anyway.
    ...
    Pulled the wheel,hub and axle out off from the drivers side and nothing looks broken there. The spline on both ends look fine. The axle comes through to the knuckle joint inside the diff. and with the short turn I'm able to do by hand it moves the knuckle.
    ...
    Why won't the axles turn the drive shaft like the rear one will?
    Thanks!
    Does the scout have locking hubs?

    If so, lock them in, both sides must be locked to get the driveshaft to spin, otherwise you'll just get the knuckles turning. It won't matter if you have the tcase in 4wd or not, if both front hubs are locked, you'll get the shaft spinning. If it doesn't have locking hubs, you'll have to turn the knuckle on one side by hand, while the other side is blocked from spinning with a large screw driver / pry bar. Then you'll get the driveshaft to spin.

    That's how it works on the front wheels. If that still doesn't work, then you have problems in the diff.

    HTH

    Bill

  8. #8
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    Nov 2009
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    Catskill Mtns, NY
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    Default

    The drive shaft wouldn't spin with the hubs locked in either. I'm guessing maybe that those hubs could be bad?
    1965 Scout 80

  9. #9
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    Feb 2009
    Location
    Interior Alaska
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    Default

    If you can't get the shaft spinning with the hubs locked in, try pinning one knuckle with a prybar, spin the other side to ensure you've got the axle knuckle rotating and watch the drive shaft. If the knuckle is spinning on the same side you are, and the drive shaft still won't turn, then you need to open the diff & look for breaks.

    If it starts to turn and then stops when the other knuckle pin hits the stop (prybar), then it sounds like the PO did some home locking updates to the front gears. You'll still need to open the cover to check.

    I've never personally seen both hubs go bad at the same time. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just never saw it.

    HTH

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    nebraska
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    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john breeze View Post
    well first off he might ran out of money or the wife said no more. there are a number of reasons. scout 2 axles will fit but you have to move the spring perches.
    are you cereal right now?

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