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Thread: 1979 scout

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    mississippi
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    Default 1979 scout

    i am going tomorrow to pick up a 1979 scout w/345. It hasn't been tagged since 96 when the owner said it started leaking oil from the front main. If this is true, can the seal be replaced by raising the motor or will it have to be pulled. If I pull it I think I will go through it and rebuild it. The interior is pretty well shot and all but the body is in great shape, no rust or dents. I am excited about getting it and getting started on it. Did dana's come stock with most of these.

  2. #2
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    Feb 2009
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    San Diego, Ca
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    Default

    If it has been sitting that long you better first see if you can turn the engine over by hand by putting a breaker bar and socked on the crank. If you cant, you might be buying a new engine. Also, with sitting that long, it would be worth just pulling the engine and replacing all the gaskets and seals as you will be fighting an uphill battle on dried out seals.

    Dana's did come stock. Being a '79 you will have Dana 44 rear with drum brakes and Dana 44 front with disk brakes. Gearing can be as low as 3.07, just crawl under and look at the tag on the pumpkin.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Aiken, SC
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    2,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rwc View Post
    i am going tomorrow to pick up a 1979 scout w/345. It hasn't been tagged since 96 when the owner said it started leaking oil from the front main. If this is true, can the seal be replaced by raising the motor or will it have to be pulled. If I pull it I think I will go through it and rebuild it. The interior is pretty well shot and all but the body is in great shape, no rust or dents. I am excited about getting it and getting started on it. Did dana's come stock with most of these.
    The front seal can be replaced without pulling the engine. The crank pulley/harmonic balancer bolt is 15/16. A deep socket will fit perfectly, and a standard puller will pull it out. There is a sleeve available for it if the crank is scored from the last seal, but most likely you won't need it.

    On a scout, you may have to pull the fan shroud or even the radiator, but if the block has not been frozen, there is a really good chance you can start it. Take the time to lubricate the inside of the cylinders before you spin the engine, and then do it with no compression. Spend 3 bucks on a cheap oil filter and top off the oil to test it. Then spin the engine with no spark plugs. If it spins, keep turning it for a few minutes, because a couple of lifters will be collapsed by now. If the oil was reasonably clean when the rig was parked, they will likely pump back up after you start the engine.

    Clean the plugs and re-install them, or just put in new ones, and try to start the engine with a fresh can of gas hooked up to the fuel pump. That nasty crap sitting in there will not fire the engine. You will get smoke at first as the marvel mystery oil or whatever you used burns off.

    I have revived several IH engines like this. You may need to pull the engine to replace the freeze plugs, but if you pull an easy one and the inside of the engine looks okay, you may find that it is not necessary, at least right away.

    I left out the implied things, like checking for spark, bring a freshly charged battery with you, etc. Think it through. A bad front seal isn't such a big deal.
    Allan E.
    Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
    Charter Member, Old Hippie IH Club
    Old fashioned binder freak

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Rock Island TN.
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    Default I concur with, Mr. Allan E

    The only thing different I would do, is instead of topping off the engine oil and changing the filter is I would not change the filter yet, and top off the engine with no more than 2 quarts of Dexron type transmission. if it needs more than that than use a cheap engine oil as you are going to change it before you drive it anywhere. I would not let it run more than a half hour with the transmission fluid in it. The transmission fluid has a much higher detergent content in it than the motor oil and will help to loosen any stuck lifters. I would actually tow it home so supplies are a little more accessible. Good Luck, Paul
    Black Smoke Customs is now open in Rock Island, Tennessee. We are addicted to International's and Cummins B series motors. The only thing we don't do is paint and body,,,yet.
    We support ASE Certification.

  5. #5
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    Aiken, SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by P&L Black Smoke Customs View Post
    The only thing different I would do, is instead of topping off the engine oil and changing the filter is I would not change the filter yet, and top off the engine with no more than 2 quarts of Dexron type transmission. if it needs more than that than use a cheap engine oil as you are going to change it before you drive it anywhere. I would not let it run more than a half hour with the transmission fluid in it. The transmission fluid has a much higher detergent content in it than the motor oil and will help to loosen any stuck lifters. I would actually tow it home so supplies are a little more accessible. Good Luck, Paul
    There are three reasons why I change the filter.

    1. It's cheap. Use the cheapest one you can find, because you'll be throwing it away after a few hours of use.
    2. 10 years is a long time for that thing to soak, and the velocity of the oil added to a disintegrating filter could spell disaster for the engine.
    3. The crud in the oil has long since settled.

    A fram filter has a CARDBOARD bypass. The rest are of higher quality, but still, the first thing that will happen when you spin the engine is that the oil in the filter gets pushed into the oil galley. If the filter is clogged or has failed, there is no way to clean out the crud while the engine is in place. Even a cheap filter will "work." I just don't trust them to "last."

    I don't use transmission fluid to clean anymore. Friction modifiers cause wear. I use diesel or kerosene or marvel mystery oil or sea foam and change the oil and filter again after about 4-6 hours, this time with a good one.
    Allan E.
    Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
    Charter Member, Old Hippie IH Club
    Old fashioned binder freak

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Rock Island TN.
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    I have a little, tiny bit of experience with Internationals and revivng them from the grave. I have never, ever, seen an oil filter do that. I would never use diesel or kerosene in an engine, back in the day that was the way to go. But with todays new ULS fuels you wont get near the lubricity that you would from Transmission fluid. As for the Sea Foam, great product, as close to a "mechanic in the can" as you can get. Later, Paul
    Black Smoke Customs is now open in Rock Island, Tennessee. We are addicted to International's and Cummins B series motors. The only thing we don't do is paint and body,,,yet.
    We support ASE Certification.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Rock Island TN.
    Posts
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    Default

    I have no doubt that works but I was saying I would not recommend putting kerosene in the engine oil. Later, Paul
    Black Smoke Customs is now open in Rock Island, Tennessee. We are addicted to International's and Cummins B series motors. The only thing we don't do is paint and body,,,yet.
    We support ASE Certification.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    mississippi
    Posts
    137

    Default

    I got er home and pulled the hood, carb and will start taking compresser alt etc off this afternoon. I, going to spin it by hand and make sure it's not locked up and probably start pulling the motor. I think I'll go ahead and rebuild it and spend some time gettiing it right. The motor has about 200,000 on it. What I would love to have is a manual. I cleaned up somewhat on it before putting it in the barn and it's really in better shape than I thought body wise. The front seats need recovering but the rest of the inside will clean up. How hard is it to find windshilds and such. Paul, I am close to Memphis where are yall located? Thanks for the replies. Forums are great!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Aiken, SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by P&L Black Smoke Customs View Post
    I have no doubt that works but I was saying I would not recommend putting kerosene in the engine oil. Later, Paul
    The factory recommended it. It's in the SV engine manual. I'm sure you have one.

    This is used for thinning the oil. Diesel does the same. Both act as solvents, but neither increases the friction enough to matter, especially for a simple engine flush. You wouldn't run it straight, of course, but it is the method for thinning the oil for extreme cold temperatures when these engines were first designed. Now that we have better quality oils, it's not needed for that purpose, but if the factory said you can run kerosene all winter to thin the oil, they probably thought it wouldn't harm the engine.

    Once the engine is running, fresh oil and fresh filters will clean the engine out while you run it. I might use an engine flush one time for up to a couple of hours, but after that, the detergents found in modern oils will take care of the job. The oil will start to turn, and you just change it as needed until you're back to regular intervals.

    I have seen oil filters disintegrate in this fashion. The FRAM PH-8A and its private label filters are prone to this over time more than others due to the cardboard bypass and cheap filtration media. I have also seen them fail, causing an apparent clog in the system, when new.

    IH engines cost too much to rebuild if you don't have to. The kits are well over 650 dollars and don't include an oil pump in the scout version. Nobody sells one, so you have to rebuild an old one. The labor is about the same as any other V8, but the parts are expensive. Avoid a teardown if you can.
    Allan E.
    Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
    Charter Member, Old Hippie IH Club
    Old fashioned binder freak

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    mississippi
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    Default

    where can one obtain a rebuild kit and what all comes with it. I want to do this and do it right.

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